Some writings by Epicurus have survived. Reddit The Epicurean Paradox is an interesting logical argument, but St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas have many interesting logical arguments on their side for the existence of God. It perfectly gathers all the tangled, frayed, stray threads of my spiritual anxiety and weaves them back into the simple whole of which they were always part. We read it in the Bible, by faith we accept it but, it is still a mystery to the human mind and how he did all this. It has never been called the Epicurean Trilemma. Marcus Aurelius’s Meditations and his ideas on Stoic philosophy are to live by. The Epicurean paradox or riddle of Epicurus or Epicurus' trilemma is a version of the problem of evil. Posts: 13111 Threads: 183 Joined: March 18, 2012 Reputation: 48 #1. I don't even consider this as evil. If you as an individual are going through something rough and have the potentially mistaken belief that it serves some larger purpose, sure, fine. Temporal inconvenience is seen as such a universal thing. If they do not exist, or if they have no care for humankind, then what is life to me in a world devoid of gods, or devoid of providence? A place for teen atheists, agnostics, etc. Statistics. ... My teenage son asked me for an answer to the Epicurean Paradox that he had seen posted on a Reddit thread. The closest quote from Marcus has some similar sentiments but it also tells us that the guy wasn't an agnostic. If love for him is the only thing god can't make it's still a win since the only thing greater than him is something in honour of him. Evil is also kinda an "human concept" not natural or universal. Lactantius attributes this trilemma to Epicurus in De Ira Dei: “God,” he says, “either wishes to take away evils, and is unable; or He is able, and is unwilling; or He is neither willing nor able, or … So there’s this meme of the Epicurean Paradox on the internet, in which someone turned it into a flowchart. My favorite is when Jesus, after his resurrection and he appeared to the 11 first and then the 12, in the upper room, the door was locked each time and he just appeared. If you don't want to be putting on a puppet show for yourself for a few thousand years, then you need to give people the option to screw up royally. I think the idea of Free Will is huge here. If you're cool about things you will also give them the option to get a "get out of hell free" card and pay all the penalties they incur. Natural/ Divine "evil"(natural disasters, famine, disease, etc.). Now departure from the world of men is nothing to fear, if gods exist: because they would not involve you in any harm. Why Does Evil Exist? “Could God have created a universe with free will but without evil?”. Re: The Epicurean Paradox. I feel like your 2 is saying that it is not evil, but that death via 1 is evil. In popular parlance, Epicureanism means devotion to pleasure, comfort, and high living. The raven paradox, also known as Hempel's paradox, Hempel's ravens, or rarely the paradox of indoor ornithology, is a paradox arising from the question of what constitutes evidence for a statement. This was a good question asked and answered in that "other web site" Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. She has stage 4 breast cancer,spine cancer,cancer spots on her left lung and pelvic area,a tumor in her skull,and Degenerative bone disease.She needs all the support that you guys/girls are willing to give.Thank you for anything you can do to help.May God bless you all Those parts are nothing more than a slight-of-hand that add nothing themselves and suffer from their own logical inconsistencies. It's akin to having rubber bullet training exercises before we go to war. Edit: oh fuck ive gotten so many replies on a joke. This is a great quote about agnosticism (and hats off to whoever came up with it because I 100% agree) but it's not really a Marcus Aurelius quote. Is it better to live an unbusy life where people think of me as a pleasant agreeable person, who isn't really able to provide for his family. The paradox of hedonism, also called the pleasure paradox, refers to the practical difficulties encountered in the pursuit of pleasure.For the hedonist, constant pleasure-seeking may not yield the most actual pleasure or happiness in the long run—or even in the short run, when consciously pursuing pleasure interferes with experiencing it.. Then comes the question of what is a good life? I mean it's pretty clear what's the end answer here. The opposite of the stoic way is the Epicurean way. It is generally taken to be evidence for ambiguity aversion.The paradox was popularized by Daniel Ellsberg, although a version of it was noted considerably earlier by John Maynard Keynes.. A nice bit of philosophy that helps to discuss the problem of evil but doesn't really end up answering any questions about it. He has created every universe that results in good being added to the world. So what if that thing is people loving god back? Honestly expected most comments to be scoffing at religion so it's kind of nice to see so many people who feel the same. He must've gotten bored of the last 20 universes being complete boring paradises. Epicurus didn't write it. This list collects only scenarios that have been called a paradox by at least one source and have their own article on Wikipedia. It is possible to live a productive life without ever running into a grey area? Details. Congratulations. London, Penguin Books. Observing objects that are neither black nor ravens may formally increase the likelihood that all ravens are black even though, intuitively, these observations are unrelated. If He is both able and willing. Is it better to be a Monk or to be a Merchant? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Speaking on death, however, is it a bad thing in Christianity? Closed to new replies Posted: September 16, 2020. There is some good within this that we as humans can't understand. I was thinking, if there is something god can't make himself than that would be greater than god, right? I have presented the Epicurean paradox which I contend successfully negates the existence of God. I did not have an answer - this is the result of my search to give a reply that would be a real answer to a tough question. Lactantius attributes this trilemma to Epicurus in De Ira Dei, 13, 20-21: God, he says, either wishes to take away evils, and is unable; or He is able, and is unwilling; or He is … So the Epicurean paradox only applies to those systems and persons for whom God - in order to BE God - *must* be thought of as a compassionate, all-knowing Creator. The Epicurean paradox. Edit: didn't know this would blow up. what are your thoughts on the Epicurean Paradox? I mean, im atheist, but if i was god why tf would i want to make a world with no evil. ... Short Squeezes and The Ethics of Reddit 3 days ago About Me. Which is as silly and arbitrary a notion as saying that the moon must be made of green cheese, or it doesn't exist. The Epicurean paradox or riddle of Epicurus or Epicurus’ trilemma is a version of the problem of evil. How long until it drops me. Although considered paradoxes, some of these are simply based on fallacious reasoning (), or an unintuitive solution (). Thatd be super boring to watch. I was never well-versed in Biblical studies so I don't really know. You couldn't resolve the Epicurean paradox and now you're on the verge of creating another paradox depending on your theology and "interpretation of scripture". By having/allowing free will someone/something automatically will go on the "evil" side compared to the POV of someone else. True, but it does eliminate a few answers that people have proposed over time. THis is a test to see how pain and adversity affects us, if we cause pain to others etc. ISK: 122.66m: 513,212: 59.01m: 482,027: 67.5: 100,261; Ships: 0: 100,433: 1: 139,541: 0.0: 100,261 Hell isn't enough. Hey presto, that's exactly what he did, like if there is light then there is also dark. Isn’t the answer to the bottom loop God did create a world with free will and without evil but Adam and Eve were tempted and ate the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Not all of the reasonable options are shown in this. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Half the religions of the world try to remind us of that. Replies: 36 . Link. Epicurean Paradox. How far can my ignorance of how the future will judge me carry me? I actually believe there's a difference between not letting your kid eat too much candy, and inventing a parasitic worm for the purpose of burrowing out of the eyes of men, women, and children, blinding them permanently to, what, make them appreciate sight? Forums > Community > Philosophy & Religion. Thank you for this. Meditations. If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect. God can not cease to be God, it’s contradictory. 1+1 can not equal 3 because it’s contradictory against its nature. Epicurean paradox: 29 ships destroyed and 32 ships lost. Epicurean definition is - of or relating to Epicurus or Epicureanism. Jesus was a paradox! The problem of evil, also known as the Riddle of Epicurus, states: If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. My opponent has restated and even clarified the paradox. I wish there was a "he wanted to" option. Epicurean Paradox . 172 votes, 348 comments. Epicureanism is a system of philosophy founded around 307 BC based upon the teachings of the ancient Greek philosopher Epicurus.Epicureanism was originally a challenge to Platonism.Later its main opponent became Stoicism.. 1. The key is to solve the Epicurean Paradox. How to use epicurean in a sentence. Which is the life that is best, one that is seen as good and moral in the century I live in or one that will be seen as good and moral by a perspectives that I haven't become aware of yet? Question: Do you want to create a universe of puppets and yes-men or do you want your creatures to have the opportunity to love and obey you voluntarily? I guess so, but my omnibenevolent mother wouldn't allow me to be raped, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. The whole wicked and impotent part is just an opinion, not an objective fact. Lactantius attributes this trilemma to Epicurus in De Ira Dei , 13, 20-21: God, he says, either wishes to take away evils, and is unable; or He is able, and is unwilling; or He is … I did not have an answer - this is the result of my search to give a reply that would be a real answer to a tough question. It's similar to a baby being pricked by a needle for the first time, to him it's the most excruciating pain there has ever existed. He has created every universe with no evil. Then whence cometh evil. The “Epicurean paradox” or “Riddle of Epicurus” is a version of the problem of evil. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. The paradox doesn't address that. This is a list of paradoxes, grouped thematically.The grouping is approximate, as paradoxes may fit into more than one category. The Christian/Muslim god is also the God of Judaism and is considered to be the original source of the "Christian/Muslim" god. One century I am working as a Shepard taking care of sheep for my family, I compete with other sheep farmers and utilize animals against their will to make a living. Use of the Epicurean paradox an ancient Greek way of thinking that many pleasure seeking Romans adopted didn't do much for either civilization. The hedgehog's dilemma, or sometimes the porcupine dilemma, is a metaphor about the challenges of human intimacy.It describes a situation in which a group of hedgehogs seek to move close to one another to share heat during cold weather. Sometimes it's grey. He had a "gods do exist and they do care for mankind" position: You may leave this life at any moment: have this possibility in your mind in all that you do or say or think. If there were anything harmful in the rest of experience, they would have provided for that too, to make it in everyone's power to avoid falling into it; and if something cannot make a human being worse, how could it make his life a worse life? The first point is an assumption, if you disagree with it, the rest is useless. Because this "paradox" is displaying a false premise. Live a good life. Substitute 'evil' for 'suffering' and the argument becomes indubitable. Epicureanism, in a strict sense, the philosophy taught by Epicurus (341–270 BCE). 55.3k members in the religion community. If it seems like something someone might print, physically post, and reference then it is a good link for this sub. If I am a Merchant, maybe someone felt like I gave them a bad deal, maybe I end up out competing someone else out of the marketplace because I do something better than them, I work hard but my life is filled with complexities on who I am hurting and who I am helping. Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc. level 1 SOL6640 And whose standards are we judging my justness and goodness? The epicurean paradox highlights the complexity of evil and suffering and the seeming contradiction of the existence of evil and suffering to a theist perspective. I find it incredibly perverse that a belief in an omnipotent, omniscient, all-knowing God could lead one to think "there's some good in this" when horrific famines or diseases strike. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. He created our universe because the good outweighs the evil. (That begs a more political question of if you can prevent death and do not, is that evil?). It is a mistake to think that pure logic is the way to persuade someone that a god does or doesn't exist. Free will is the decision to do good or evil. https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/g2axoj/epicurean_paradox 12). Link. In a broad sense, it is a system of ethics embracing every conception or form of life that can be traced to the principles of his philosophy. It's either been called the Epicurean paradox or the riddle of Epicurus. He has created every universe with less evil. By some future standards perhaps I am a tyrant, abusing animals, eating their flesh. Otherwise it's bad parenting. Picture based reference guides for anything and everything. Yes, that is one of the points of the diagram. Religious people. March 30, 2012 at 9:26 am . So it is possible to have a logical argument against the Problem of Evil, but the axiom requires faith that God is doing it/ allowing it for your best interests. Greek philosopher Epicurus (342- 271BCE) claimed that the existence of suffering proved there is no God. Epicurean means seeking pleasure in moderation so as to prevent future suffering. A moot point, perhaps, but it is better to call things by their proper names. Her name is Tiwilla Carr. (see: Paradise Lost) I think for a lot of people that can be difficult to accept, so it comes down to whether or not you believe (that, one, God exists, and, two, that God is benign and cares). Man-made evil (murder, rape, extortion, etc.). There is some good within this that we as humans can't understand, but I expect God to have a great (not just good) reason for. Sure, this requires more knowledge and creativity, but I … Simply he is testing, wanting not the obedience of innocent drones but the obedience of tested, Free Willed people. He claimed that if God cannot stop evil then he is not omnipotent. Free will can not exist without the choice of evil because it’s contradictory against its nature. I have a simple solution to this problem. 2. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. We’re just stuck in one of the universes he turned to after he made all the better ones. 1.3k members in the AtheisticTeens community. This is all assuming the premise is true. Remember: Infographics are learning tools, guides are reference tools. That's a contradiction. Cookies help us deliver our Services. to converge and chat! Omnipotence does not mean necessary mean that God can do anything at all but rather, that he can do anything that's possible according to his nature. The word comes from a philosophical school of thought named for it’s founder Epicurus. And yet we debate the "Problem of Evil" anyway. Additions to the paradox. If He is able, but not willing. Then He is malevolent. I think that you can split evil into 2 categories. Therefore it is contradictory to say free will can exist but evil can not. But they do exist, and they do care for humankind: and they have put it absolutely in man's power to avoid falling into the true kinds of harm. Hi my name is Jatur Carr and I would like to ask you all to support my mom through prayer. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I will clarify it again through an explanation of the problem of evil by the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Source: MARCUS AURELIUS, HAMMOND, M., & CLAY, D. (2006). Blame the man, because the man has free will and is accountable for his actions. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. 2. It is an equally powerful and still relevant position. Your mother loves you, yet she doesn't grant you an easy life nor does she give you what you want - you must work for it. Share on Reddit Share on Google+ Share on StumbleUpon Share on LiveJournal. With the Monk life I never directly harm anyone through my actions, I live simply and modestly, but can't take care of many people's material needs. But I think we have a right to be insulted by what equates to a resigned attitude to the terrible suffering of others because it is part of some unknowable plan.
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